Comments on: Hard to find neutral OOXML comments http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/ ... taking over the world like we always do! Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:18:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: kaeru http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-664 kaeru Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:31:59 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-664 What Don is saying is actually the case within the national standards bodies like Malaysia and Singapore also. Most of the people on these bodies are purely technical standards people who debated on various other less public ISO standards. Unfortunately the decisions of these technical committees have been overturned by heavy politicking such that a government minister overrules the recomendations of technical committees of standards bodies in our countries (Malaysia and Singapore). I think you can find access to the unbiased comments of these technical committees such as the British one available online. With neutral comments, do you actually mean pro-OOXML? The technical committees debated on whether it is fit to be an ISO standard, based on standard procedures, not in comparison to ODF. Where ODF is mentioned, it's because part of the procedure is to compare with existing ISO standards of which ODF is one. The fact that a lot of these technical recommendations were negative, does not mean it's pro-ODF, more the fact that OOXML is not fit to be an open standard to be adopted by ISO according to our national standards body technical committees. You're lucky you live in more transparent country. When national standards body recommendations are vetoed and overruled by a minister, I hope you can understand why some of us in the FOSS Community in Malaysia, may not be so sympathetic for a call for a fair go for OOXML. What Don is saying is actually the case within the national standards
bodies like Malaysia and Singapore also. Most of the people on these
bodies are purely technical standards people who debated on various
other less public ISO standards. Unfortunately the decisions of these
technical committees have been overturned by heavy politicking such that
a government minister overrules the recomendations of technical
committees of standards bodies in our countries (Malaysia and
Singapore). I think you can find access to the unbiased comments of
these technical committees such as the British one available online.

With neutral comments, do you actually mean pro-OOXML?

The technical committees debated on whether it is fit to be an ISO
standard, based on standard procedures, not in comparison to ODF. Where
ODF is mentioned, it’s because part of the procedure is to compare with
existing ISO standards of which ODF is one. The fact that a lot of these
technical recommendations were negative, does not mean it’s pro-ODF,
more the fact that OOXML is not fit to be an open standard to be adopted
by ISO according to our national standards body technical committees.

You’re lucky you live in more transparent country. When national
standards body recommendations are vetoed and overruled by a minister,
I hope you can understand why some of us in the FOSS Community in
Malaysia, may not be so sympathetic for a call for a fair go for OOXML.

]]> By: greebo http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-583 greebo Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:39:26 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-583 @Don I agree with everything you said :) I don't believe the majority of participants are staunchly pro-ODF, but I do believe there are a few very loud stanch pro-ODF participants (as there are a few loud staunch pro-OOXML participants) who muddy the waters and make it quite hard to be neutral as one or both parties tend to throw mud. I think the argument for strong Open Standards and a credible international standards body is very important. @Don

I agree with everything you said :) I don’t believe the majority of participants are staunchly pro-ODF, but I do believe there are a few very loud stanch pro-ODF participants (as there are a few loud staunch pro-OOXML participants) who muddy the waters and make it quite hard to be neutral as one or both parties tend to throw mud.

I think the argument for strong Open Standards and a credible international standards body is very important.

]]> By: Don Christie http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-556 Don Christie Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:41:08 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-556 "the majority of participants are either staunchly pro-ODF" I don't think this is the case, certainly it was not in New Zealand. What we were was staunchly pro-open standards, pro the need for a credible international standards body and very pro having workable standards that are a useful addition to our technological framework *first* and a marketing tool 21st. Good luck tomorrow. “the majority of participants are either staunchly pro-ODF”

I don’t think this is the case, certainly it was not in New Zealand. What we were was staunchly pro-open standards, pro the need for a credible international standards body and very pro having workable standards that are a useful addition to our technological framework *first* and a marketing tool 21st.

Good luck tomorrow.

]]> By: Punk http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-533 Punk Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:53:15 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-533 Hey think of it this way because most of us can relate. If the group with the number 1 haircuts, steel capped boots and an angry snarl tell you that you must adopt their gobal standard of Oi music many will becuase they are afraid to think on their own, then their will be those who twist the Oi back to reggae who will do their own thing and adopt their own standard.(anything in this world can be a standard if you say so). Foss may be a group of skins but that doesn't mean everybody has to get inline or be beaten and kicked into submission. Hey think of it this way because most of us can relate. If the group with the number 1 haircuts, steel capped boots and an angry snarl tell you that you must adopt their gobal standard of Oi music many will becuase they are afraid to think on their own, then their will be those who twist the Oi back to reggae who will do their own thing and adopt their own standard.(anything in this world can be a standard if you say so). Foss may be a group of skins but that doesn’t mean everybody has to get inline or be beaten and kicked into submission.

]]> By: greebo http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-530 greebo Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:02:14 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-530 Hi Fred, I totally agree with you that Microsoft really should be focusing on improving and harmonising with ODF, which is a true industry collaboration, rather than doing their own thing (again). However this is not a concrete reason to say yes or no to OOXML, which is the question I'm currently focused on. Mainly because that is the sole question our standards bodies are struggling to answer. Hope that makes sense :) All the rhetoric in the world is fine, but we need to understand the difference between an OOXML/ODF debate, for which there are many _many_ points, and a 'should OOXML be an ISO standard' debate. Hi Fred,

I totally agree with you that Microsoft really should be focusing on improving and harmonising with ODF, which is a true industry collaboration, rather than doing their own thing (again). However this is not a concrete reason to say yes or no to OOXML, which is the question I’m currently focused on. Mainly because that is the sole question our standards bodies are struggling to answer.

Hope that makes sense :) All the rhetoric in the world is fine, but we need to understand the difference between an OOXML/ODF debate, for which there are many _many_ points, and a ’should OOXML be an ISO standard’ debate.

]]> By: Fred (not the same as above) http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-529 Fred (not the same as above) Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:38:59 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-529 Hi! I think what I would like to understand is why do we need a second standard when there is already one? Can't Microsoft spend its money to "improve" it to support feature XYZ instead of doing whatever they are doing now? But that would probably mean that the whole world CAN agree on something and that's probably utopia (and has nothing to do with FOSS & MS - I just happen to be a dreamer)... Hi! I think what I would like to understand is why do we need a second standard when there is already one? Can’t Microsoft spend its money to “improve” it to support feature XYZ instead of doing whatever they are doing now? But that would probably mean that the whole world CAN agree on something and that’s probably utopia (and has nothing to do with FOSS & MS - I just happen to be a dreamer)…

]]> By: Fred http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-526 Fred Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:01:13 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-526 I would wear knee high boots also so when you step in the poo it won't stick and squelch between the toes whilst splashing over those around you I would wear knee high boots also so when you step in the poo it won’t stick and squelch between the toes whilst splashing over those around you

]]> By: Ric Hayman http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-522 Ric Hayman Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:41:51 +0000 http://pipka.org/blog/2007/12/12/hard-to-find-neutral-ooxml-comments/#comment-522 You may need to find a flame-proof coat as well, Pia ... You may need to find a flame-proof coat as well, Pia …

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